The soul is united in will with whatever it is joined and bound to as its master. Either it has, therefore, the light of God in it and lives in that light with all of its powers, abounding with restful light, or it is permeated by the darkness of sin, becoming a sharer in condemnation.
I think there is a problem with the Orthodox view of theosis not distinguishing between justification and sanctification. Granted, I am Protestant. But I think there is a fundamental issue in play, at least in how I understand the concept and have heard multiple Orthodox people describe it.
They describe it as a spectrum not a binary, which is fine, as far as we all at different places. But it doesn't address the question of "who will be with God forever". We are told over and over in the Bible to value the things of heaven, to give up the things of this world in order to receive the things of the world to come. We are told that what is waiting for us is "an eternal weight of glory." This means Jesus is worth any level of abuse, pain, or abasement in this world, because in the next world that is more than reversed by infinity.
Some of that heavenly life, we can experience here in this world, no doubt. That is the point the Orthodox make which I agree with. But what of the Christian in Gaza? He has to put his hope in what comes after he dies and is resurrected into. Theosis doesn't give him a clear answer, while I think the BIble does.
Theosis says keep working, keep drawing nearer to Christ. Again, not an incorrect statement. But when do you attain Christ and all that He has within Himself? I don't think the Orthodox can answer that problem, so their adherents never have peace or certainty, but terror that maybe they didn't draw close enough to Jesus. Yes, they say that God is also at work in them. But they still are left to wonder, did God work enough in me, did He love me enough, to save me from my earthly suffering and punishment in hell.
For the Protestant, the answer is clear. When you believe, it's done, but the proof of your faith is your works. Then assurance of salvation, which is very important, comes when you see yourself actively believing the Bible, fellowshipping with the saints, worshipping God joyfully, and obeying His commandments willingly. This is all in 1 John by the way. To me that is a very satisfying answer that answers the different question about the topic.
I’m an engineer by orientation and don’t like gray, however, I agree with Bionic that critical elements of our faith are gray.
I was raised evangelical and have a degree from a brand-name evangelical seminary, but fell away for about five years, returning to faith as a Roman Catholic. If I had perished during that time, what would my eternal state have been?
The RCC sees salvation in a distinct but similar fashion as the EO. It’s certain if one remains in grace, yet we pray for our perseverance and salvation. Judas was one of the apostles, yet Satan filled his heart.
If one pays attention during Holy Mass, mercy is emphasized over and over again. “Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy.” While lifting the Host, the priest says, “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.” We are saved by God’s mercy (grace)—yet can turn away at any time.
Today, I’m going to a funeral Mass for a relative who lived a life far from sainthood. What is his eternal state?
I think the eternal destiny of the soul is too important a topic to leave up to "gray". Not that humans can be 100% certain, but uncertainty will lead to bitterness or lethargy towards God. For example, how would it affect your relationship to your earthly father if you never knew if he truly accepted or loved you? Same basic principle exists with our relationship to our Heavenly Father.
Not to be snotty, but that’s a reflection of Protestant “once saved, always saved”.
What of Judas?
What of the prodigal son had he never returned? In this case, the father’s offer of return was always there whether the wayward son knew it or not (the youth was uncertain), but it was up to the son to return.
I’m 100% certain of my salvation provided I never walk away.
That’s a gray balance between divine mercy and my accountability.
It is a reflection of studying the Bible for 27 years.
Judas is in hell. The Bible is clear on that.
If the prodigal son lived a life of immorality and died following his pleasures, he is in hell. A bad tree can not bear good fruit and a good tree can not bear bad fruit, thinking on a life long basis.
Your statement about your own salvation begs several questions. What do you mean by salvation and how is it attained?
I think the Bible says that Judas was marked for destruction from the beginning. The prodigal son is a character in a parable so the question is moot. That is not the way parables work. The character is in there to teach a central theme, no more no less.
John 17:17 "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."
I think there is a problem with the Orthodox view of theosis not distinguishing between justification and sanctification. Granted, I am Protestant. But I think there is a fundamental issue in play, at least in how I understand the concept and have heard multiple Orthodox people describe it.
They describe it as a spectrum not a binary, which is fine, as far as we all at different places. But it doesn't address the question of "who will be with God forever". We are told over and over in the Bible to value the things of heaven, to give up the things of this world in order to receive the things of the world to come. We are told that what is waiting for us is "an eternal weight of glory." This means Jesus is worth any level of abuse, pain, or abasement in this world, because in the next world that is more than reversed by infinity.
Some of that heavenly life, we can experience here in this world, no doubt. That is the point the Orthodox make which I agree with. But what of the Christian in Gaza? He has to put his hope in what comes after he dies and is resurrected into. Theosis doesn't give him a clear answer, while I think the BIble does.
Theosis says keep working, keep drawing nearer to Christ. Again, not an incorrect statement. But when do you attain Christ and all that He has within Himself? I don't think the Orthodox can answer that problem, so their adherents never have peace or certainty, but terror that maybe they didn't draw close enough to Jesus. Yes, they say that God is also at work in them. But they still are left to wonder, did God work enough in me, did He love me enough, to save me from my earthly suffering and punishment in hell.
For the Protestant, the answer is clear. When you believe, it's done, but the proof of your faith is your works. Then assurance of salvation, which is very important, comes when you see yourself actively believing the Bible, fellowshipping with the saints, worshipping God joyfully, and obeying His commandments willingly. This is all in 1 John by the way. To me that is a very satisfying answer that answers the different question about the topic.
https://thecrosssectionrmb.blogspot.com/
I’m an engineer by orientation and don’t like gray, however, I agree with Bionic that critical elements of our faith are gray.
I was raised evangelical and have a degree from a brand-name evangelical seminary, but fell away for about five years, returning to faith as a Roman Catholic. If I had perished during that time, what would my eternal state have been?
The RCC sees salvation in a distinct but similar fashion as the EO. It’s certain if one remains in grace, yet we pray for our perseverance and salvation. Judas was one of the apostles, yet Satan filled his heart.
If one pays attention during Holy Mass, mercy is emphasized over and over again. “Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy.” While lifting the Host, the priest says, “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.” We are saved by God’s mercy (grace)—yet can turn away at any time.
Today, I’m going to a funeral Mass for a relative who lived a life far from sainthood. What is his eternal state?
Gray.
I think the eternal destiny of the soul is too important a topic to leave up to "gray". Not that humans can be 100% certain, but uncertainty will lead to bitterness or lethargy towards God. For example, how would it affect your relationship to your earthly father if you never knew if he truly accepted or loved you? Same basic principle exists with our relationship to our Heavenly Father.
Not to be snotty, but that’s a reflection of Protestant “once saved, always saved”.
What of Judas?
What of the prodigal son had he never returned? In this case, the father’s offer of return was always there whether the wayward son knew it or not (the youth was uncertain), but it was up to the son to return.
I’m 100% certain of my salvation provided I never walk away.
That’s a gray balance between divine mercy and my accountability.
It is a reflection of studying the Bible for 27 years.
Judas is in hell. The Bible is clear on that.
If the prodigal son lived a life of immorality and died following his pleasures, he is in hell. A bad tree can not bear good fruit and a good tree can not bear bad fruit, thinking on a life long basis.
Your statement about your own salvation begs several questions. What do you mean by salvation and how is it attained?
Was Judas ever on a path to paradise? Was the prodigal son before he left home?
I believe that we have an Apostolic Church-Protestant divide that cannot be overcome.
Not that it matters, but I entered Bible college in 1977 and seminary in 1983. Years mean nothing—only truth.
I think the Bible says that Judas was marked for destruction from the beginning. The prodigal son is a character in a parable so the question is moot. That is not the way parables work. The character is in there to teach a central theme, no more no less.
John 17:17 "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."