"I know there are some who don’t accept that last part; you can’t “prevent” God from doing anything. Yes, that’s true. At the same time, I have no idea how to live this Christian life without participating in it. And I know that there are times when I choose not to participate. I won’t try to explain this apparent contradiction, nor try to make it fit some doctrinal claim. I just know it is so."
The way to look at it is not that we prevent God from doing anything, but that we are simply rejecting his offer. He could easily force salvation upon us. He could make us be perfect through an intervention of His divine will upon ours without our consent. But what sort of meaning would salvation have then?
Those days, months, or even years in which we neglect to tend the garden of our faith, become that growing rejection of His offer. As a Catholic, I don't look at faith as a one time choice. It is a choice we must make every second of the day. We can always let our garden become overrun by weeds and pests. That is always an option that we must watch out for. Memento mori. Remember that we will die and face judgement, and this undeniable fact should serve as motivation to tend the garden, so that it looks nice when the Master returns. As you say, we have to participate in this Christian life.
Weeds and pests will always try to creep in, and sometimes overwhelmingly so, but we must continue to purge them, and have faith in the tools that God, the Master Gardener, has freely given us.
ATL, I generally agree with this - although I cringe at the edges of the doctrinal debates on soteriology, as you know (in other words, how you phrase things aren't necessarily how I would; how you understand things aren't necessarily how I understand things). As I have mentioned elsewhere, I leave the fringes of this issue aside (e.g. so much divisiveness about what is meant by "election") - I think on the fringes, the nuances are not very relevant to what we are to believe and how we are to live.
To my understanding, there has been no meaningful ecumenical council to decide just what is meant by terms like salvation, justification, election, etc. - in other words, no council on soteriology If there has been, I would welcome being informed). I guess this means, to me, that it was never felt that we need to sweat the details on this doctrine.
Just FYI, starting next week, I am going to look into the necessity of good works within the Reformed tradition, culminating in a multi-part review of a book on deification (call it divinization or theosis if you like) in this same tradition. In fact, "participation" language is liberally applied. In the tradition that gets slammed on the topic of "total depravity"!
My only purposes in trying to understand the nuances of soteriology, is to inform myself, my wife, my children, my loved ones generally what they need to be doing to get and stay right with God, and to determine which Church is the most authentic Church of Jesus Christ. In other words, when it comes to Jesus, I want to be sitting in the front of the class and I'm going to drag my family there as well.
I am certainly open to a little beautiful mystery in the Christian story though. I just want to make sure I did my due diligence in this life in trying to understand something so incredibly important.
"I know there are some who don’t accept that last part; you can’t “prevent” God from doing anything. Yes, that’s true. At the same time, I have no idea how to live this Christian life without participating in it. And I know that there are times when I choose not to participate. I won’t try to explain this apparent contradiction, nor try to make it fit some doctrinal claim. I just know it is so."
The way to look at it is not that we prevent God from doing anything, but that we are simply rejecting his offer. He could easily force salvation upon us. He could make us be perfect through an intervention of His divine will upon ours without our consent. But what sort of meaning would salvation have then?
Those days, months, or even years in which we neglect to tend the garden of our faith, become that growing rejection of His offer. As a Catholic, I don't look at faith as a one time choice. It is a choice we must make every second of the day. We can always let our garden become overrun by weeds and pests. That is always an option that we must watch out for. Memento mori. Remember that we will die and face judgement, and this undeniable fact should serve as motivation to tend the garden, so that it looks nice when the Master returns. As you say, we have to participate in this Christian life.
Weeds and pests will always try to creep in, and sometimes overwhelmingly so, but we must continue to purge them, and have faith in the tools that God, the Master Gardener, has freely given us.
ATL, I generally agree with this - although I cringe at the edges of the doctrinal debates on soteriology, as you know (in other words, how you phrase things aren't necessarily how I would; how you understand things aren't necessarily how I understand things). As I have mentioned elsewhere, I leave the fringes of this issue aside (e.g. so much divisiveness about what is meant by "election") - I think on the fringes, the nuances are not very relevant to what we are to believe and how we are to live.
To my understanding, there has been no meaningful ecumenical council to decide just what is meant by terms like salvation, justification, election, etc. - in other words, no council on soteriology If there has been, I would welcome being informed). I guess this means, to me, that it was never felt that we need to sweat the details on this doctrine.
Just FYI, starting next week, I am going to look into the necessity of good works within the Reformed tradition, culminating in a multi-part review of a book on deification (call it divinization or theosis if you like) in this same tradition. In fact, "participation" language is liberally applied. In the tradition that gets slammed on the topic of "total depravity"!
My only purposes in trying to understand the nuances of soteriology, is to inform myself, my wife, my children, my loved ones generally what they need to be doing to get and stay right with God, and to determine which Church is the most authentic Church of Jesus Christ. In other words, when it comes to Jesus, I want to be sitting in the front of the class and I'm going to drag my family there as well.
I am certainly open to a little beautiful mystery in the Christian story though. I just want to make sure I did my due diligence in this life in trying to understand something so incredibly important.
A classic! Thank you....and it's going into DaLimbraw Library.
Thank you.